SFA | Oral History | Birmingham Greek Oral Histories

The only thing I always ha[d] a hard time [with in] southern cooking, one product: corn. We never use corn in our cooking, at least in—where I come from. And we always thought corn, it was for the animals only. And I [didn’t] eat cornbread for the last fifteen—the first fifteen years I was in the United States. And actually, I like it.
--George Sarris

George Sarris came to Birmingham from Greece in 1969. After a few years of working in restaurants owned by relatives and fellow countrymen (Niki’s West and John’s included), he partnered with his uncle in The Fish Market Restaurant on South 21st Street downtown. In 1982 he bought the business from his uncle and has since become a veritable ambassador of Greek food and culture. In addition to running the restaurant, George has an import company that deals in Greek products from his native Tsitalia. But with everything from fried green tomatoes to baklava on the restaurant’s menu, it’s apparent that his place is as Southern as it is Greek. His father, Kostandinos Sarris, has retired from his days running Sarris’s Hot Dogs and can often be found visiting with friends at his son’s place. The joint is always bustling with an eclectic crowd, so plan to stay a while to take it all in. And make sure to check out all of the fantastic photographs hanging throughout the restaurant that beautifully document George’s many visits back to his hometown.

Edited Transcript

What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click this link. (Adobe Acrobat Reader required)

Subject: George Sarris, owner
Date: March 8, 2004 @ 1:30 p.m.
Location: The Fish Market Restaurant
Interviewer: Amy Evans

Amy Evans: Okay, this is Monday, March eighth, two thousand and four. And I’m in Birmingham, Alabama, at The Fish Market Restaurant with George Sarris. And he’s the owner and proprietor here. We’re in his office. Mr. Sarris, if you wouldn’t mind stating your name and age—

George Sarris: My age too!

--if you’d be so kind. [Laughs]

[Laughs] Okay, my name is George Sarris, and I’m fifty-two years old.

And you arrived from Greece to Birmingham in nineteen sixty-nine?

Nineteen sixty-nine. April the first.

And what brought you to Birmingham?

Eh, uh, [short pause] from the village [Tsitalia] where we come from…in Greece. Uh, in nineteen hundred there was probably about four hundred fifty families. Uh, which is that three hundred fifty immigrate to Birmingham—through the times. And it was—I always have some relatives here…that’s how we started. And it was the option—it was to go to Germany—because we was very poor. My parents both, they were subsis—subsistence farmers.

Um-hmm.

And we—we have the option to go to Germany or to go to Australia. And we decided to come to United States. It would—because there was more people from our village here…I mean, well—great grandparents and, eh, uh, uncles and—I mean, mostly mens. They used to come, work for ten, fifteen years and then come back, build their house and—yeah. Eh, some of them—I—I have one uncle, which he is, uh, my grandmothers brother. He was here--five children, his wife pregnant, he came to United States, and he never came back to Greece until his son--which his wife she was pregnant--he was thirty-six years old.

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yanni1 Well, you mentioned before we started—you mentioned your great grandfather—

Yeah. Great grandfather. He was the first time here. He was born in 1864. His name, it was Triantaffillos Balabanos. He was here in Birmingham—the first time—1887. And he was come here, work three, four years, then he go back, and he use the money for dowry to marry his daughters.

What kind of work did he do when he came here?

Eh, in a restaurants. He was in restaurants. In fact, he was in a—a—he was doing something has to do with fish. Because I—like I was saying earlier, he used to tell me—he was a blind—eh, all my lifetime—I was born in 1951, close to fifty-two—and, uh, he born six, six. He died six, six, sixty-six. Anyway, he was telling me about oysters. And I remember…he was telling me how to open [oysters]. He was blind, but he knew all the movements--how you open the oyster without leave a shell inside there. You know, that way when the customer eat it, you don’t have no shell in it. And you know, to me it was kind [short pause] really, it--it was like a fairy tale. Because I mean, I would not believe those things. That inside a rock you open and eat it. Uh, we live—we live very close to the ocean, but we live in the mountains. And, uh, the first time we—even myself, I got in a—I got in a car, I was sixteen. I mean, you know, that way you see how—and I remember he was tell us about beef and, uh, I don’t—I never taste beef until we come to the United States.

So how is it do you think that Greeks came to Birmingham and got into the restaurant business? Because it’s just the agriculture background or—

They—I think so because the—the first Greeks from Greece, eh, they say they came to the South to work in the railroad—for--lay the railroad tracks?

And they find out, really, how many was too much work, and they find out if you open a fruit stand or some kind of food stand they—you know, it was easier work and all rewarding money-wise. And that’s what they did. That’s where they started. I don’t think so—to be honest with you, really, to me the surprise because none of them [the men] cook more or less there [in Greece]. But I mean, they knew about fresh ingredients and they knew, uh, a little bit about food. But, no. I mean—I know—I mean number one, most of them was so poor, they barely would have enough—I mean, you’re talking about no food to eat. I mean at least what—where I come from it’s subsistence farming. You raise everything you eat. I mean, you raise ten different kinds of beans or lentils of--of pistachio nuts and figs and grapes and wine and honey and—and we know lot of things about ingredients, very little thing about the actual cooking of the ingredients. The women, they mostly did. But the women, they would not leave though.

So do you think most of it, um, might have to do with just kind of the momentum that’s gained by having—

Exactly!

--your fellow countrymen here?

Exactly. And just like any other nationality, the first one—the second, uh, boatload had come, per se. You know, they—they was going somewhere to work, and they go to somebody who has a fruit stand or a restaurant or a coffee shop or something like that.

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yanni1 And so you’re from the town of Ts--

Tsitalia, which is a small village up in the mountains. I mean, the car—electricity—when I left, uh, in 1969, it was no electricity, no running water. And a dirt road. Now they have, uh, asphalt, and they have water a year ago. I mean look, 2003 they put the water. And they have electricity around 1973.

And I understand that the Greek community in Birmingham that’s from that village has done a lot to support—

Yeah, we support the village. But, uh, I kind of—we fix the school and give money for the church and, uh, you know, we—in fact, we try to raise money to upgrade the—what is the small kid’s place? What is that name? Playground.

And I know you make trips back. How often do you go?

I used to go about five times a year. Then I married and then go down to four. And then my wife raise hell, it go down to a little less. [Laughs] No, we have a business there. We--we have a little import company we started as a [short pause] kind of more or less a way to go to Greece. And we bring olive oil, and we bring Greek urns and—you know really, it’s—it’s—and we take friends, and we take customers.

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So tell me how you came to open the Fish Market. And when that was.

Okay. It was 1983. Eh, actually, I w—my uncle opened it first. And after a few months he was tired, he can’t—you know, he say, “Come over. Take it over.” And it was—

Who’s your uncle?

Jimmy Hontzas. The late Jimmy Hontzas. He was—have six seats [here then]. He was kind of more or less wholesale price. And then we turn it to the restaurant. [Short pause] And the restaurant is history, and we work too hard. Anyway. But I—I been to Birmingham all these years and—and I was reading a little bit about the other gentleman in Mississippi [Mike Ballas, owner of the Crystal Grill in Greenwood], and he’s the same thing. I mean, you know. You see somebody’s family and I [short pause] to me, I mean, I don’t see as more or less as customers. I see the people as kind of family. After a while you—you see –I mean, you know, somebody bring their kids here in a –in a—in a, uh, you know, twenty days old. And you bring in, you hold in your hands and then you see them, they finished college and—you know what I mean.

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yanni1 Well, can you talk a little bit about how the restaurant’s changed over the years since—

The restaurant’s—the [short pause] To--to start with, when I come here I remember, uh, because I work in a restaurant, of course, it was—having the menu it was very—steak. T-bone steak and Delmonico steak and, uh, chicken broiled Greek-style, and—and, uh, liver with onions. Now it’s just—at least in Birmingham, I know, which I’m very familiar with it—it’s unbelievable. [Phone rings] I mean we have a wholesale seafood house, and we have twelve different kind of shell oysters, for instance. I mean, we have four kinds of salmons, we have a Sea Bass, we have…okay, two things. I—I think so, the biggest change it was—I mean, it happened because people started to travel. A man or a family from here travel and become a lot more available--in late—early seventies—and a person go to San Francisco, go to new Orleans, go to overseas to Italy, to Greece, to, uh, Mexico, and they try something different. When they come back—and all these immigrants come open little places, the people a lot more [short pause] eager to try the—those foods. But I think so, traveling to me, traveling open your horizons.

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[Tell me] about the Greek items on the menu.

Yeah, I mean I would say we use oregano—I mean, yes [short pause] the red fish might be Louisiana original recipe, but then we Greek it—

Yeah.

--somewhat. I’m serious! It’s funny [laughs] because—I mean, you know, we do some things back there, and I’ll be damned. You put what you grew up with, you know? They say white wine, you put a little red wine. You put little less. That’s what you used to cook there. Uh, I mean, you know, you—you put—you—they say [short pause] basil—because we don’t use as much basil on some foods, and we use oregano. We use a lot of oregano. We use lot of garlic. Uh, yes, we—I mean, this way is—is impossible [short pause] not to put your culture in it, you know what I mean?

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yanni1 Well and how do you think that Southern cooking has influenced your restaurant here? With the frog legs and fried green tomatoes on the menu.

[T]he Southern, you know, really—I’m telling you. We take the Southern cooking and we Greek it a little bit.

[Laughs]

GA: I mean, I’m serious. It’s funny! But you know, it is, uh, uh—for instance, uh [short pause] You know, I find the Southern cooking somewhat similar [to] where we come from. Overcooked vegetables--I mean, the green beans still—you kill them to death. Greens and that, you know. You put ham in it and—eh, eh, you know. We put olive oil. We don’t put a ham, you know. Uh, much ham. Uh, the only thing I always have a hard time to—about the southern cooking, one product: corn. We never use corn in our cooking, at least in—where I come from. And we always thought corn, it was for the animals only. And I don’t eat cornbread for the last fifteen—the first fifteen years I was in the United States. And actually, I like it. I make cornbread. I used to make it because I used to work in a cafeteria a little bit and, uh—I think so—we took, uh, Southern food—all the immigrants, you know, from Germany and the ones in the restaurant and [short pause] from Ireland, from Greece, from Italy—we took Southern food and it was just kind of, uh—Italianize it or Irelandize it or Greeksize it—whatever you c—whatever the proper word. You see? Because, how many truly—if a restaurant by immigrants or about—or about Italians, you know, with a strong Italian background, it’s not truly Southern food if you—if—if you pay attention to it. I mean, some things they do—they cook roast beef, okay? How are they Southern cooking? Roast beef? With carrots, onions [short pause] you know, potatoes, maybe. Eh, now, the Italians, the Greeks come. We’ll put celery; we put lots of garlic. The Italians put basil—little basil. [Phone rings] We—and, uh, white wine. And red wine. You know, even—and you cook that. And the Italians put a little more bell pepper; we put little less bell pepper. We put celery on just about everything. But you see, in the South—and I worked in Niki’s on Finley Avenue? [Niki’s West]

Niki’s? Yeah.

Yeah. And it was my uncle’s—which—it was truly—I mean, it was not—no, you don’t out celery. I mean, you know, the cooks there—which they was born here—the truly—I mean, personally, if I wanted—if I wanted to truly taste Southern food now, I go to a black family-owned restaurant. They’ve stuck more with the real Southern old cooking and, you know.

Well to talk more about the Greek community here in Birmingham, can you talk about what it was like when you first got here?

Eh [short pause] Yeah. I mean, we have a—I mean, it was about—it’s—it’s in the church about fifteen hundred people. And the church—Greeks, they just have a love and hate relationship with church. They kind of more—ninety-nine from Greece, they Greek Orthodox. They like the church. A lot of them go to church for the, uh, social, uh, interaction with other Greek people. Eh, we speak the language. We—I mean, you’ll find, which is very unusual, third or fourth generation Greeks to speak Greek. I mean, I have a baby, and I speak to him only in Greek. Uh, I have two other children—previous marriage--and they’ve been twelve times to Greece. Eh, [short pause] when I first came here, really, it was just—it was a lot more—it was a lot more my age. We used to be—really, I don’t miss home much. Because it was so many Greek people in my age here, and we just kind—like a group. [Short pause] No, It was nice, really.

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Well how about the younger generations here now? Is there still a Greek school at the church?

Yeah, we have Greek school at the church. And, um, everybody try to teach them the Greeks—the Greek. Uh, Greek national holidays we always have a dinner. They always have a speech. Eh, I think—I mean, that’s what is—you have to remember because Greek Orthodox, it’s not like Catholic--you have a—all over—spread all over the world. Greek Orthodox is kind of confined to them. And church is the social—

Um-hmm.

--you know. Like I say, all of them--I’m telling you! [Laughs] We have this crazy relationship with church. You know what I mean…I mean, it’s the church—you walk in, we walk out, the service is too long. The priest, he say we talk too much because sometimes you go to church and you ask the—your neighbor—you know. You know, “You busy last night?” I mean, you know—type of thing. [Laughs] I mean it’s just somewhat sacrilegious to people they—I invite sometimes to church. I mean, they think we’re crazy. But that’s culture. I mean, you know, you have to kind of overlook that.

Um, in this neighborhood there are…plenty of Greek-owned restaurants, um, and quite a few hot dog stands. Do you have any opinion on how the hot dog stand came to a Greek-owned…enterprise?

Actually, uh—Tom’s Coneys…Which is—mmm, it’s out of business now. It was—Tom Theodophilos, he was my great grandfather’s name. Hot dogs, it was the easiest thing to sell. You know. He was more or less like –the carts. Those pushcarts in New York City? [Phone ringing] Which a lot of immigrants have, uh—I mean, that’s how they start. It’s easier. It’s simple. You don’t—my parents, they always have a hot dog stand. And my father, he don’t speak no English, and my mother, she would speak less than a hundred—hundred words. But it’s easier to--you know, you have to learn onions, ketchup--I mean, you know, nothing—I mean nothing—very simple. Chilidog, hot dog, cheese. Um, and it was a simple thing. But here—even there—uh, and here, you have to remember that those hot dog stands, only Greeks—they can open it. They used to be, I would say probably forty, fifty places in late sixties. And now they started—people—people, they don’t eat no more hot dogs. I mean, somewhat—I quit eating—it’s kind of, uh----I—I mean, I go eat hot dogs probably once a year. Just to kind—something, you know, just like, uh—I like to go—like fried chicken twice of year, you know, type of thing.

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So you kind of seem like the Greek Ambassador to Birmingham with all this import and export business that you have and—

Yeah, we [short pause] I mean, ye—and I’m going to tell you th—when you leave from your country, and you go somewhere else like United States--in particular United States. Because it’s very unusual but, uh—because I talk to, uh, the people I grew up in high school at least—I mean, I have a friends [short pause] from Zambia, Germany, Argentina, Venezuela, uh, United States, uh, Canada, Australia. I mean, really—we can—and it’s very unique to the United States. When you come here, really, you love this country. And it’s just like—the thing, though, it’s just like you have envisioned yourself [phone rings] you have a mother, which she loves you. That’s your home country. Then a mother-in-law—I’m—I’m sorry, a stepmother, which is—she loves you the same thing. And it’s the same thing. And it is a tug, really. I mean, uh, you love here, but yet your mind—you know. Like, for instance, I have this crazy idea. After I die, I want to bury me there. My wife, she say, “No way!” I’m going to put in my will, you know, to do that. But I don’t the she would honor it. It’s nothing to it. I mean, you know. I mean, it’s—it’s just a mindset. But literally, it’s like two mothers.

That’s a good analogy.

Yeah, I’m serious. And a mother-in-law which is very, very nice to you. That loves you. But, eh—[short pause] It’s hard. I mean, all the way—and—and—it—it don’t matter if you grow up poor. I mean, we was very poor, really. I mean, uh—but---what—where you was born in. If you have a, you know—anyway.

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So do you consider the Fish Market a Greek restaurant?

In my head, yes. Somebody walk [in from] outside, no. But in my head, yes. I mean, we speak Greek. I mean, we don’t care who listen—we care who, eh, eh, who—it might offend somebody, but we speak Greek. I mean, yeah! I mean, we drink coffee, we have-- my father, he has a lot of people that come see him. You know, he just retired and he just don’t have nothing to do, and he comes here. Put his apron on, his friends come, and they’re loud. They talk politics, they—you know. Yeah, I consider myself Greek restaurant.

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Of course, from the first time I opened the restaurant, we make a effort to advertise on the black radio stations. I mean, it was a conscious effort. And it was—somewhat, uh, business decisions. But—but [for] the most part it was—I want to run a place, which is more or less everybody. And—and we done it, really We done it. I mean, there’s a –the help, I have, uh, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Mexican, Swedish, uh, Italian—Petito, he is here—eh, [short pause] Greek, of course. And I mean, you know, think about it! Everybody—I mean, you know, I saw the—Saturday night was extremely busy, and this--one of the Swedish cashiers—she’s going to school here, and she works part-time. Uh, she wanted something for the, uh--a black gentleman, which—he is, eh—in—on a grill, and she want it fast. And he—you know, you know—he done it. And she give him a hug and “Thank you.” You know what I--I mean, really, to me—I mean, that’s just—you know? Really, I mean how many b—you know, all these groups, you put them together, and they work harmoniously and now we’re this—I mean, it’s just like—unbelievable.

Yeah. Well, that’s a great little microcosm you have here.

Yeah, and—you know. And we never, never have any—any—I never see any animosity one group or another one. Nothing. I mean, they work—I mean, unbelievable. [Short pause] Anyway, I hope the whole society be like that anyway.

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